The entire Bible in 30 minutes or less

*I am sitting in a doctor’s office this morning waiting to be diagnosed with what I am nearly certain is a nasty case of strep throat.

As you can imagine, I don’t feel much like writing a blog post but, sitting here, waiting, with nothing but CNN on the waiting room TV (gag) and the stimulating conversation of people who feel as lousy as I do to keep me company, I started thinking.

Below is something I found a while ago and something any of us can do if we find ourselves with a few spare minutes.

Enjoy 🙂

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What can you do in 30 minutes?

How much can you read?
How much TV can you watch?
How many projects can you start and finish?
How many calls can you return?

Suppose you had 30 minutes.
Could you tell the story of the Bible in a half-hour?

Most of us would have a hard time doing that.
After all, the Bible is big book.
The numbers are staggering.

66 books written by 40 authors in three languages over 1500 years.
Over 1100 chapters.
Over 31,000 verses.
Over 800,000 words.

Would it be possible to tell the story of the Bible in one message?

That’s our goal.
Buckle up because we’re going to start in Genesis and end in Revelation and see if we cover the whole book in one message.

Here is the story of the Bible, told in six acts.

Act 1: God Creates Everything.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
In 6 days God made everything. On the 7th day he rested.That’s Genesis 1.

Genesis 2 tells us about Adam and Eve.
God created Adam out of the dust of the ground and placed him in the Garden.
Then he fashioned Eve from a rib taken from Adam’s side.
He presented Eve to Adam who was very pleased indeed.
The two became one flesh.
They were naked and they were not ashamed.

Act 2: Man Rebels Against God

The serpent appears to Eve and deceives her.
She eats the fruit, gives it to Adam, and he eats.

Eve ate the fruit because she was deceived by the serpent.
Adam was not deceived as Eve was. He knew it was wrong but ate the fruit anyway.
Therefore God holds him accountable.
“Sin entered the world through one man” (Romans 5:12).

This was the decisive moment, the great turning point.
Nothing will ever be the same.
Suddenly they are ashamed, they try to cover their nakedness.
Innocence is gone forever.
When confronted by God, Adam makes excuses.

“Who told you that you were naked?”
“The woman you gave me.”

First he blames Eve, then he blames God.
Eve blames the serpent.

Judgment comes quickly.
They are cast out of the Garden.
God clothed them with garments of skin, a sign of his grace.

Now they are on their own.
The world becomes a very unfriendly place.
Cain kills Abel.
Civilization spreads. Large cities form.
Death is everywhere. That’s Genesis 4-5

Things go from bad to worse.
In Genesis 6 God intervenes.

The earth had grown corrupt and full of evil.
God calls Noah who builds an Ark.
When the flood comes covering the whole earth, only 8 people are saved.
Thus do we learn of judgment and grace.

Now the line narrows to Noah and his family.
After the flood, the three sons of Noah spread out and begin to multiply.
Generations come and go.
Eventually they build a tower to express their enormous arrogance.
God sends the confusion of languages at the Tower of Babel.
People scatter across the face of the earth.

Act 3: God initiates redemption

Something hugely important happens in Genesis 12.
God calls Abraham.
He’s a prosperous, middle-aged, pagan businessman in Ur of the Chaldees.
God calls, he responds and becomes the outstanding example of faith in the Bible.

We can divide the whole Old Testament this way:

Genesis 1-11 God creates the human race.
Genesis 12-Malachi 4 God creates the Hebrew race.

Abraham and Sarah have a son–Isaac.
Isaac has a son–Jacob.
Jacob has many sons, the most important being Joseph.
Joseph ends up serving Pharaoh in Egypt.
His family follows him there. They number 70 people.
God blesses them until the day comes when a Pharaoh arose who did not know Joseph.
For 400 years the people suffered in bondage until God raised up a deliverer named Moses.

He goes before Pharaoh and says, “Let my people go.”
When Pharaoh says, “No!” God sends the 10 plagues.
The last one was the death of the firstborn.

So Moses leads the Jews out of Egypt, across the Red Sea, and into the desert.
At Mount Sinai God gives the Law, starting with the Ten Commandments.
You can read that in Exodus 20.

At Kadesh-Barnea they sent out 12 men to spy out the land of Canaan.
It was a land filled with milk and honey.
But because there were giants in the land, 10 of the spies said, “No, we can’t go.”
Because the people did not believe God’s promise, they wandered in the wilderness for 40 years.

Then God raised up another leader–Joshua.
He leads the people to conquer the land of Canaan, the Promised Land.
They divided the land for the twelve tribes.

Then comes the wild period of the Judges where every man did what was right in his own eyes.
You know some of them-Gideon, Barak, Jephthah, Samson.
The story of Ruth belongs in this period.

God led his people by prophets, priests and judges.
But the people wanted a king.
So God gave them Saul who started well and ended badly.
Then came David whose victory over Goliath made the women sing his praises.
But later David’s reign would be tarnished because of his sin with Bathsheba.
Then came Solomon, the king who asked God for wisdom.
He built the magnificent temple in Jerusalem.
But he married foreign women who turned his heart away from God.That’s 1 Kings 11.

Meanwhile the priests offered sacrifices day after day, year after year.
A river of blood flowed from the altar.
High priests came and went.

After Solomon’s death the nation split into two parts.
The northern ten tribes were led by a long string of evil kings.
They were taken into captivity in 722 B.C.
The southern two tribes had a few good kings.
They lasted until 586 BC when the Babylonians took them into captivity.

The prophets brought God’s message of warning and hope.
Isaiah spoke of a suffering servant.
Jeremiah wept for his people.
Daniel explained the handwriting on the wall.

The people of God languished in exile for 70 long years.
It was a hard, humiliating time for the Jews.

Finally God raised up two key men.
The first was Zerubbabel who led a small group back to Jerusalem at the end of the 70 years.
In 445 B.C. Nehemiah rebuilt the walls around Jerusalem.
Sometime after that Malachi the prophet gave his message from the Lord.

The Old Testament closes with a sense of longing and expectation.
Promises had been made. The prophets had spoken.
The people were waiting.

What would God do?

Act 4: God Accomplishes Redemption

In a mostly unlikely way,
In a most unlikely place,
When the time had fully come,
God sent forth his Son.

He was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
Born of the Virgin Mary.

Not just any baby.
But the seed of the woman, the son of David, the one whose name is
Immanuel, God with us.

Shepherds glorified him.
Angels announced him.
The Magi brought him gifts.

The angel told Joseph, “Call his name Jesus for he will save his people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21).

He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

He was baptized by John, tempted by the devil, misunderstood by the religious leaders, feared by some, hated by others, but the common people heard him gladly.

He was full of grace and truth.
He was the fullness of God in bodily form.

The Bible says he went around doing good.
He causes the blind to see, makes the deaf to hear, casts out demons, heals the sick and raises the dead.
He invites all the weary to come to him for rest.

He teaches God’s law, embodies God’s love, and fulfills God’s promises.

He preaches to the masses.
He speaks in parables.
He is a friend of sinners everywhere.

Repeatedly he tells the 12 that he will be betrayed into the hands of sinful men who will beat him and then crucify him. He tells them that after three days he will rise from the dead.
They do not understand.

In the Garden of Gethsemane he prays in agony.
Judas betrays him.
Peter denies him.
The disciples abandon him.
Caiaphas accuses him.
Herod mocks him.
The soldiers beat him.
Pilate condemns him to death.

He is crucified between two criminals.
He cried out, “Father, forgive them for they don’t know what they are doing.”
And, “It is finished.”
Finally, “Father, into your hands I commit my Spirit.”
Then he breathed his last breath.

He was buried in a borrowed tomb.
One day he was dead.
Two days he was dead.
But on the third day . . .

Two women went to the tomb to anoint his dead body.
They found the stone rolled away and the tomb empty.
An angel said, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? He is not here. He has risen!” (Luke 24:5-6).

The word began to spread. “He’s alive!”
Over 40 days Jesus appeared to his disciples many times.

His message is . . . “God is glorified. I am alive. Redemption is accomplished.”
“Go and tell everyone!”

Then he ascended into heaven.

Act 5: God gives birth to the church.

For ten days the disciples waited and prayed.That’s Acts 1.
On the Day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit came in great power.
With the sound of a rushing wind.
With tongues of fire.
The disciples speak in foreign languages they did not know.
Peter preaches and 3000 are saved in one day.
The church is born in Jerusalem and grows amid much opposition.
The message spreads throughout Judea and Samaria.
Then to Galilee.

It moves across the Roman Empire as Peter, Paul and the other disciples preach the Good News.
The church faces growing opposition and rising heresy. There are troubles on every hand.

James writes.
Paul writes.
Peter writes.
John writes.
The New Testament is completed.

So the Word of the Lord spread, the disciples multiplied, and the church grew. Even in the face of intense opposition, the first Christians proclaimed this message:

Jesus is Lord!
He is risen from the dead!

They said to anyone would listen, “If you will repent and believe the gospel, Jesus will give you power over sin, over death, over hell, and over the world, the flesh and the devil.”

Jesus Christ is Lord!

Act 6: God completes redemption

If you go all the way to the end of the New Testament, to the book of Revelation, there we find pictured the final act of history–the return of Jesus Christ to the earth.

It begins this way:

“The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.”

If it was soon 2000 years ago, how much longer can it be?

Jesus Christ is coming again! That’s an amazing thought. Magnificent! Thrilling! Unbelievable!

Acts 1:11 says that “this same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

“This same Jesus.”

Not someone like Jesus.
Not a group of Jesus scholars.
But Jesus himself is coming again.

Coming soon to Montreal.
Coming soon to Calcutta.
Coming soon to Beijing.
Coming soon to Edmonton.
Coming soon to Auckland.
Coming soon to a city, a town, a village, a street, a home near you.

When he comes the second time, it will not be as Savior. It will be as judge.

He came the first time as the Lamb of God.
He comes again as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.

When Christ finally appears the second time, every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).

The best is yet to come.

No wonder the Bible ends with these words:

“He who testifies to these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming soon.’ Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.” (Revelation 22:20-21).

That is the Bible.

God creates man.
Man rebels.
God initiates redemption.
God accomplishes redemption.
God gives birth to the church.
God completes redemption.

If we imagine the Bible as a great sanctuary and every book in the Bible as a seat in the sanctuary, then we can say wherever you go in the Bible, you’ve got a great view because you can see Jesus everywhere.

In Genesis he’s the Seed of the Woman.
In Exodus he’s the Passover Lamb.
In Leviticus he’s the Scapegoat.
In Numbers he’s the Serpent lifted up in the Wilderness.
In Deuteronomy he’s the Cities of Refuge.

In Joshua he’s the Scarlet thread on Rahab’s house.
In Judges he’s the Perfect Judge.
In Ruth he’s the Kinsman Redeemer.
In I Samuel he’s the Trusted Prophet.
In 2 Samuel he’s the True Son of David.
In 1 Kings he’s the Promise Keeper.
In 2 Kings he’s the Jealous God.
In 1 Chronicles he’s our Reigning King.
In 2 Chronicles he’s our Deliverer.
In Ezra he’s the Faithful Scribe.
In Nehemiah he’s the Rebuilder of Broken Walls.
In Esther he’s Mordecai at the Gate.

In Job he’s My Redeemer Who Lives Today.
In Psalms he’s the Lord who is my Shepherd.
In Proverbs he’s our Wisdom.
In Ecclesiastes he’s our True Satisfaction.
In Song of Solomon he’s the Beautiful Bridegroom.

In Isaiah he’s the Suffering Servant.
In Jeremiah he’s the Righteous Branch.
In Lamentations he’s the Weeping Prophet.
In Ezekiel he’s the Son of Man.
In Daniel he’s the Fourth Man in the Furnace.

In Hosea he’s the Faithful Husband.
In Joel he’s the One Who Restores.
In Amos he’s the Burden Bearer.
In Obadiah he’s the Mighty Judge.
In Jonah he’s the Foreign Missionary.
In Micah he’s our Peace.
In Nahum he’s the Avenger.
In Habakkuk he’s the Lord in His Holy Temple.
In Zephaniah he’s the Lord Mighty to Save.
In Haggai he’s the Lord of Hosts.
In Zechariah he’s the Fountain of Cleansing.
In Malachi he’s the Sun of Righteousness.

In Matthew he’s the Promised Messiah.
In Mark he’s the Faithful Servant.
In Luke he’s Friend of Sinners.
In John he’s the Son of God.

In Acts he’s the Ascended Lord.

In Romans he’s the Justifier.
In 1 Corinthians he’s our Righteousness.
In 2 Corinthians he’s the God of All Comfort.
In Galatians he’s the Redeemer from the Curse of the Law.
In Ephesians he’s the Head of the Church.
In Philippians he’s the All-Sufficient Christ.
In Colossians he’s the Fullness of God.

In 1 Thessalonians he’s the Lord Coming Down from Heaven.
In 2 Thessalonians he’s the Judge coming with Blazing Fire.
In 1 Timothy he’s our Mediator.
In 2 Timothy he’s our Master.
In Titus he’s the Blessed Hope.
In Philemon he’s the One Who Paid Our Debt.

In Hebrews he’s Our Great High Priest.
In James he’s the Judge Standing at the Door.
In 1 Peter he’s the Chief Shepherd.
In 2 Peter he’s the Morning Star.
In 1 John he’s the Word of Life.
In 2 John he’s the Son of the Father.
In 3 John he’s the Truth.
In Jude he’s the Lord Coming with countless thousands of his saints.

In Revelation he’s the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

He’s the Theme of the Bible.
The whole book is about him.

If you know the Bible but you don’t know Jesus, you’ve missed the whole point.

Of his kingdom there will be no end.
He shall reign forever and ever and ever.
King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Hallelujah! Amen.

Keep Believing Ministries

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Categories: Christianity

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78 replies

  1. I love that! Thanks for sharing. These days when I’m trapped in lines and waiting rooms, I pray and recite scriptures. I used to think of that time as wasted, as a frustrating part of modern life. Now it’s an opportunity, a gift.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Yep, that about sums it up. But try digesting it all in one lifetime. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Christians believe in Original Sin.
    Original Sin is a Church construct first taught by Augustine.
    Jews consider Genesis to be allegorical.
    They do not believe in Original Sin.
    Jesus was a Jew. So were his disciples.
    Jesus followed Torah as did the disciples.

    Jesus did not believe in Original Sin.

    Like

    • Arkenaten,

      I won’t go down this road, and except to say that original sin is sound Christian teaching, everyone knows it.

      Original sin is known in two senses: the Fall of Adam as the “original” sin and the hereditary fallen nature and moral corruption that is passed down from Adam to his descendants. It is called “original” in that Adam, the first man, is the one who sinned and thus caused sin to enter the world. Even though Eve is the one who sinned first, because Adam is the Federal Head (representative of mankind), his fall included or represented all of humanity. Therefore, some hold that original sin includes the falling of all humanity. Some see original sin as Adam’s fallen nature being passed to his descendants. “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned–” (Rom. 5:12).

      Like

      • Original Sin was first taught / postulated by Augustine.
        I care less whether you are not prepared to go down this road. The facts speak for themselves.
        Origen, for example, did not consider Genesis to be anything but analogy.
        There is nowhere in the Gospels that the character, Jesus of Nazareth preaches or teaches the doctrine of original sin.
        Judaism considers each individual is born innocent.
        Jesus was a Jew.
        Original Sin is a church corruption.
        Period.

        Like

    • The term “original sin” deals with Adam’s sin of disobedience in eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and its effects upon the rest of the human race. Original sin can be defined as “that sin and its guilt that we all possess in God’s eyes as a direct result of Adam’s sin in the Garden of Eden.” The doctrine of original sin focuses particularly on its effects on our nature and our standing before God, even before we are old enough to commit conscious sin. There are three main views that deal with that effect.

      Pelagianism: This view says that Adam’s sin had no effect upon the souls of his descendants other than his sinful example influencing those who followed after him to also sin. According to this view, man has the ability to stop sinning if he simply chooses to. This teaching runs contrary to a number of passages that indicate man is hopelessly enslaved by his sins (apart from God’s intervention) and that his good works are “dead” or worthless in meriting God’s favor (Ephesians 2:1-2; Matthew 15:18-19; Romans 7:23; Hebrews 6:1; 9:14).

      Arminianism: Arminians believe Adam’s sin has resulted in the rest of mankind inheriting a propensity to sin, commonly referred to as having a “sin nature.” This sin nature causes us to sin in the same way that a cat’s nature causes it to meow—it comes naturally. According to this view, man cannot stop sinning on his own; that is why God gives a universal grace to all to enable us to stop. In Arminianism, this grace is called prevenient grace. According to this view, we are not held accountable for Adam’s sin, just our own. This teaching runs contrary to the fact that all bear the punishment for sin, even though all may not have sinned in a manner similar to Adam (1 Corinthians 15:22; Romans 5:12-18). Nor is the teaching of prevenient grace explicitly found in Scripture.

      Calvinism: The Calvinistic doctrine states that Adam’s sin has resulted not only in our having a sin nature, but also in our incurring guilt before God for which we deserve punishment. Being conceived with original sin upon us (Psalm 51:5) results in our inheriting a sin nature so wicked that Jeremiah 17:9 describes the human heart as “deceitful above all things and beyond cure.” Not only was Adam found guilty because he sinned, but his guilt and his punishment (death) belongs to us as well (Romans 5:12, 19). There are two views as to why Adam’s guilt should be seen by God as also belonging to us. The first view states that the human race was within Adam in seed form; thus when Adam sinned, we sinned in him. This is similar to the biblical teaching that Levi (a descendant of Abraham) paid tithes to Melchizedek in Abraham (Genesis 14:20; Hebrews 7:4-9), even though Levi was not born until hundreds of years later. The other main view is that Adam served as our representative and so, when he sinned, we were found guilty as well.

      The Calvinistic view sees one as unable to overcome his sin apart from the power of the Holy Spirit, a power possessed only when one turns in reliance upon Christ and His atoning sacrifice for sin upon the cross. The Calvinistic view of original sin is most consistent with biblical teaching. However, how can God hold us accountable for a sin we did not personally commit? There is a plausible interpretation that we become responsible for original sin when we choose to accept, and act according to, our sinful nature. There comes a point in our lives when we become aware of our own sinfulness. At that point we should reject the sinful nature and repent of it. Instead, we all “approve” that sinful nature, in effect saying that it is good. In approving our sinfulness, we are expressing agreement with the actions of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. We are therefore guilty of that sin without actually having committed it.

      *This is from gotquestions.org

      Like

      • @Isaiah project.

        Well, that was a wonderful Fundamentalist Exposition in BS. Well done!
        Adam is a narrative construct. The Jews wrote the Pentateuch/Torah around 600 bce and pretty much finished it two centuries later.
        The Jews consider The Pentateuch allegorical. The jews consider every person is born innocent.
        They do not believe in Original Sin.
        Jesus was a Jew.
        So were the disciples.
        Jesus never preached, taught of believed in Original Sin.

        It is a church construct originally proposed as doctrine by Augustine.
        Go study history.

        Like

    • Hello, Arkenaten,

      I was very intrigued by your comment here and wanted to see if I could get further clarification. I do not pose my question in any way to cause conflict. Rather, I am honestly seeking to know your thoughts on questions that came to my mind in reading your response. And please, James, as this is your blog, step in if you feel I am out of line in seeking Arkenaten’s thoughts on this subject or in this manner.

      So the argument, Arkenaten, you posed twice to James is as follows, and please correct me if I’m wrong:

      Jews do not believe in Original Sin.
      Jesus was a Jew.
      Therefore, Jesus did not believe in Original Sin.

      So I was wondering if you believe and/or insist that the following “therefores” must be true as well based upon the same argument construct you employed above:

      Jews do not believe Jesus is the Messiah.
      Jesus was a Jew.
      Therefore, Jesus did not believe He was the Messiah.

      Jews do not believe Jesus was God.
      Jesus was a Jew.
      Therefore, Jesus did not believe He was God.

      Jews believe in the absolute Oneness of God.
      Jesus was a Jew.
      Therefore, Jesus believed in the absolute Oneness of God.

      Jews believe one gets to heaven based on good deeds and a belief in God and a Savior isn’t necessary.
      Jesus was a Jew.
      Therefore, Jesus believed one gets to heaven based on good deeds and a belief in God and a Savior isn’t necessary.

      Jews deny the resurrection of Jesus.
      Jesus was a Jew.
      Therefore, Jesus denied His resurrection.

      Yet…Jesus did believe Himself to be the Messiah, the fulfillment of the Hebrew prophecies.
      Jesus did believe Himself to be God, saying, “I and the Father are one.”
      Jesus did not believe in the Oneness of God but spoke of and saw Himself as part of the Trinity.
      Jesus did not believe one gets to heaven based on good deeds and a belief in God but, instead, that a Savior was necessary and said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.”
      Jesus did not deny His resurrection but, in fact, predicted it and went on to be resurrected, thereby proving the truth of His resurrection.

      I am respectfully wondering what your thoughts are.

      Like

    • Thank you for responding, Arkenaten, although I do feel like I was both complimented and insulted all in one sentence. Putting that aside and getting to the heart of the matter at hand, I am curious to know something – why didn’t you just ask to be provided with Scriptural support of Jesus believing in Original Sin since you believe you have not found any yet rather than trying to trip people up with an illogical argument such as “Jews believe…therefore Jesus believed…”? This type of approach saddens me because rather than further intellectual thought and discourse, it shuts it down. If a person is sincerely seeking the truth, then the premise from which they start a dialogue must be sound. If, however, it is fundamentally flawed, then no truth can come from it unless and until the flaw is revealed and the real question/issue ascertained.

      So to that end, I would like to ascertain what is at the heart of your request. I am unsure of your worldview so I don’t know where to begin. I originally thought it was perhaps non-theistic, be it atheistic, materialistic, naturalistic, humanistic, but given your alignment via your name and self-description on your blog with, I believe, the Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten, who attempted to transform religious worship in his day from polytheistic to monotheistic, believing himself to be a god and demanding that his people worship him as one, you could actually possess a theistic worldview, Jewish, Christian or otherwise. So I am unable to go any further at this point because I do not really know to what particular worldview you ascribe and, thus, do not know where your request is coming from.

      So I would like to ask sincerely: what does it matter whether or not Jesus believed in Original Sin? Or more accurately, what does it matter to you specifically? I understand there are many people, even many professing Christians, who claim Jesus did not believe in Original Sin. So why is His belief or nonbelief in Original Sin important to you? Why do you find it necessary that you either be provided with proof of His belief or for others to admit that no such proof exists? I am trying to get to the heart of your request because I believe any answer I might attempt to provide for or against Jesus’ belief in Original Sin will be summarily dismissed by you otherwise. I am not sure if you are hoping to expose what you perceive to be inconsistencies in Scripture, in Christian theology, in the Person of Christ or if you personally are Jewish (since you claim it to be church corruption to say Jesus did, in fact, believe in Original Sin) or Christian and are contemplating the merits of Christianity and your profession of faith in this regard for some reason is hanging on the answer to this question. Obviously this is a matter of importance to you and that is why I would like to get to the heart of why you find Jesus’ belief or nonbelief in Original Sin to be problematic.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Thank you for responding, Arkenaten, although I do feel like I was both complimented and insulted all in one sentence. Putting that aside and getting to the heart of the matter at hand, I am curious to know something – why didn’t you just ask to be provided with Scriptural support of Jesus believing in Original Sin since you believe you have not found any yet rather than trying to trip people up with an illogical argument such as “Jews believe…therefore Jesus believed…”?

        Because there is no scriptural support that has Jesus teaching original sin. It is a church construct and can be traced to Augustine.

        My worldview: I am an atheist.

        The doctrine of Original Sin matters because christian children are taught that they are born sinners and thus, blighted from birth.
        This is false and can be considered rank child abuse.

        Discuss this with a deconvertee if you are unaware. I can provide you with several links that will back this assertion.

        So, to reiterate, the biblical character, Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew, so were his disciples, they followed the Torah and did not believe in Original Sin. Torah teaches everyone is born innocent. It would have been anathema to them.

        I hope we are clear and this has resolved any misunderstandings you have been carrying regarding your faith?
        Original Sin is a corruption of scripture.

        Like

    • Thank you, Arkenaten! Your response is extremely helpful.

      To reiterate what you stated, you believe the doctrine of Original Sin matters because of its potentially damaging effect on children, and I couldn’t agree more. We have an awesome responsibility as both parents and adults who interact daily or near daily with children in some form or fashion when it comes to the influence we have on the most innocent members of our society. Where you and I differ, however, is in the view of whether or not a child believing in Original Sin could be construed as child abuse.

      I personally would argue that it may be considered child abuse to raise a child to believe in heaven but, since there is no such thing as Original Sin, they have to earn their way there and if they don’t, then they will go to hell. That’s how I was raised and it resulted in a perfectionist mindset that led to complete despondency because there was no definitive checklist with boxes I could tick off or guideline laid out anywhere as to what constituted “good enough” for a human being that I could possibly attain thereby guaranteeing my entrance into heaven. I would also argue that it may be perhaps even greater child abuse to raise a child to believe, despite the evidence within and all around them which cries out for and testifies to the fact there is something more than just this life and this world, that there is no such thing as heaven, that their life is meaningless and purposeless, that since there is no life after death there is true justice for wrongs done us in this world, and that death is simply the end. The atheist worldview, if seen to its logical conclusion, leads to, as the atheist Friedrich Nietzsche said, insanity or suicide, insanity being the personal outworking of Nietzsche’s own atheism. To indoctrinate a child with a worldview whose logical outworking is insanity or suicide is perhaps the greatest form of child abuse.

      On the other hand, while the concept of Original Sin is a difficult one to grasp and one we will never fully understand as humans this side of heaven most certainly, to learn that even though we may be born with Original Sin, that God in his endless grace and mercy has provided a way for us to overcome Original Sin in the Person of Jesus Christ through his life, death and resurrection and that we need only accept His gift of salvation was an unspeakably wonderful gift to me, as it is to all Christians who possess a saving faith in Jesus Christ. And while here on earth I may suffer the consequences of possessing a sin nature, to know that I am ultimately not responsible for my sin nature and that God took on the burden of delivering me from my sin nature, something I am completely unable to do on my own, was the most joyful, freeing realization of truth I have ever come to. The greatest blessing we can give a child is knowledge of their Father in heaven and the gift of salvation and eternal life He freely offers to them.

      As far as Jesus goes, Jesus was human, but He was also divine, wholly man, yet wholly God. His knowledge was not limited to the realm of human understanding and teaching as ours is. So it is false, I believe, to assume that His thinking must have likewise been limited to what the Jews of his time taught and believed in general and specifically as concerns the Torah. Jesus did not just preach from the Word, He was the Word so He had perfect understanding of Scripture, not the flawed understanding that the Jews of His time often had, be it concerning Original Sin or otherwise.

      On another note, I do wonder why you emphasize so strongly that the doctrine of Original Sin is a corruption of Scripture when, as an atheist, you do not see the Bible as authoritative, let alone the inspired, inerrant Word of God. And I also do not understand your arguing the more specific point of Jesus not believing in Original Sin. Such a belief begs the question why does it matter to you whether or not Jesus believed in Original Sin because you don’t believe in God or the divinity of Jesus anyway?

      Liked by 1 person

      • Cindy,

        These are great questions and comments, I hope you get the replies you are looking for.

        I am still recovering and not feeling well so I am going to stay out of this.

        God bless,

        James

        Like

      • Thank you, Arkenaten! Your response is extremely helpful.
        To reiterate what you stated, you believe the doctrine of Original Sin matters because of its potentially damaging effect on children, and I couldn’t agree more. We have an awesome responsibility as both parents and adults who interact daily or near daily with children in some form or fashion when it comes to the influence we have on the most innocent members of our society. Where you and I differ, however, is in the view of whether or not a child believing in Original Sin could be construed as child abuse.

        It isn’t what I believe, this is historical fact.
        As for child abuse; perhaps you have few qualms openly lying to children in the name of your religion I presume? You ought to investigate the stories of deconvertees.
        The rest of this post is sadly, pretty much all polemic and unfortunately, smacks of indoctrination.
        I would be interested what was the (emotional?) trauma that caused you to convert or are you a product of childhood indoctrination as well?
        I have explained why I consider this subject important, because those that believe it as real indoctrinate children, as do Creationists.
        If you have verifiable evidence for any of your claims then we can discuss this further.
        P.S . Which god are you referring to, please?

        Like

    • Thank you, once again, Arkenaten. This will be the final response of mine you may be glad to know since, in part, I do have to work at some point today, but primarily because each of your responses seems to descend further into the territory of insults and attacks on character. This closes the door to the search for actual truth and is unnecessary. It is possible to disagree with someone who has a differing opinion while still respecting them.

      First of all, you argue that the doctrine of Original Sin finds its origins in St. Augustine yet you provide no basis for this belief, which, yes, it is a belief and not historical fact. Those who believe in Original Sin do not, or at least should not, believe that it cannot be found in the pages of the Bible or that St. Augustine actually created the doctrine. Your statement that the doctrine of Original Sin can be traced back to St. Augustine I believe implies that you believe the doctrine had no reality in truth prior to St. Augustine, yet it actually was there all along. St. Augustine may (or perhaps may not) have “discovered” the concept of Original Sin within the pages of the Bible and put a name to it, thereby providing a greater understand of the Genesis account of the fall of mankind, but St. Augustine no more created the concept of Original Sin any more than the astronomer who “discovers” a distant planet not previously known and gives it a name. The planet was there all along. We simply for whatever reason hadn’t recognized it yet. So it logically follows that if the doctrine of Original Sin was there in the Bible all along, existing independent of St. Augustine, St. Augustine’s putting a name to it cannot be a corruption of the church, unless, that is, whatever church you are referring to believes the Bible itself to be corrupt, in which case the corruption of one specific part would be irrelevant in light of the corruption of the whole.

      As for lying to children, to me one of the greatest wrongs that can be done in our society is abuse of a child, whether physical, psychological, mental, emotional, spiritual or otherwise. I and my daughter bear the scars of a life with a pathological liar. I absolutely agree with your view that lying is a form of abuse and would never condone it in any form, although as a sinner and lacking human perfection, I have fallen short of this mark at times as has my daughter. Thankfully, God’s grace provides us forgiveness and the Holy Spirit enables us to make more God-pleasing choices the next time around. I must assume, however, that you yourself have never lied to a child before, even a little white lie, since you hold such scorn and disdain for those of us who you believe do willingly and wantonly lie to children for our own ends, religious or otherwise. Your own moral code would never allow you to commit such a heinous act yourself.

      Of course, I could and should question at this point what your basis actually is for claiming that lying to a child is child abuse. As an atheist, my understanding is you believe there is no objective standard of morality and that morality is relative. As such, just because you consider something, even such a thing as lying to a child, to be abuse does not make it abuse. It is merely your opinion. So since morality is relative under your worldview, if others believe lying to a child is not abusive, regardless of the reason (over spiritual matters or otherwise), you have no right to tell them they are wrong. Your opinion is your opinion; their opinion is theirs. Without an objective moral standard, all you can do is say you disagree and that you don’t like it, but you cannot say they are wrong; you cannot say it is abuse. And by the same token, just because you claim telling children about the doctrine of Original Sin is child abuse does not make it so. It is merely your opinion. I do not hold the same opinion. Since I believe there is an objective standard of morality, that being God, I have a foundation upon which to stand and say you are wrong. You, however, do not believe there is an objective standard of morality, so you have no foundation upon which to stand and say I am wrong, despite your having done so several times now.

      But putting the whole morality argument aside for another day, another blog Q&A, I will say that I believe one should not tell a child about Original Sin without also telling them about God’s grace because the two go hand in hand and are not independent of each other. It would be remiss for the Christian to preach or teach the Law without also preaching and teaching Grace. The concept of Original Sin is also a more advanced theological concept to grasp, one that, as I said earlier, we will never fully understand this side of heaven even as adults let alone as children, and so just as I believe you should gear what you tell a child about certain subjects, sex and where babies come from being obvious ones, based on their age and overall maturity, you should also do the same when it comes to instructing children in matters of faith. The reason people do not come to faith in the first place or de-convert is due to confusion surrounding and misunderstandings of faith, at least where Christianity is concerned, so unless you want to guarantee that a child or an adult never comes to faith, you would never begin downloading all the beliefs of Christianity on them at one time as soon as they are able to, say, speak their first words. To do so would not be a wise exercise of the discernment and revelation the Holy Spirit living within gives us. As His children, God reveals things to us as we are spiritually mature enough to handle them and not a moment sooner. As our Father, He is our example and we should do the same with our children.

      Just as a note, my faith is not the product of trauma, emotional or otherwise, or indoctrination as a child. It is a gift from God, though hard fought for, evidence based and the product of years of intense, protracted search and study. My grandfather was a Baptist minister who preached solely on the Law and never God’s grace, so I knew about the doctrine of Original Sin from before I can remember, but I also had the entire spectrum of beliefs living under my family roof – Christian, agnostic and atheist, sometimes all within the same person including myself. I was then, am now and have always been free to believe what I choose about the existence of God as well as the specifics of any particular faith, including atheism as well as Christianity. The only roadblock to my belief in any particular worldview was self-imposed ignorance when I chose not to step out and search for the truth when I didn’t understand or was confused about something. Rather than seek out answers to my questions, I dug my heels in and stood firmly entrenched in my beliefs for years, primarily my foundationless atheistic beliefs I clung to for many, many years, although I did have periods where I clung to certain Christian beliefs without any real foundation to support them as well.

      I will admit I still don’t understand why you are so concerned about making sure children aren’t indoctrinated with beliefs in the truth of Original Sin. As an atheist, my understanding would be that your overriding concern is making sure children aren’t indoctrinated with a belief in any god, let alone the Christian God, thereby negating any need to ensure that no indoctrination takes place as concerns beliefs specific to only theistic worldviews and, even more specific, to one of the monotheistic worldviews and, even more specifically, to the monotheistic worldview of Christianity. After all, if you convince a child there is no god of any kind, they would never have reason to believe in the very specific doctrine of Original Sin. Like you said with the Jews, it would be an anathema to them and, if they heard it, they would do as you and other atheists have, dismiss it out of hand because of its complete inconsistency with their worldview. So no harm, no foul, right? The child wouldn’t even understand it let alone consider it and so could not be harmed by being spoken to about it. So there really is no reason fighting over it as vehemently as you are and calling people child abusers who do believe in it and speak of it.

      As for evidence of any of my claims, I am not sure which claims you are referring to. If you are referring to basically everything I have stated, there certainly isn’t the time or space on this blog, my own blog, your blog or any blog to go into that. I did not come to any of my beliefs quickly or lightly. There is a vast amount of evidence behind each individual belief. Speaking of evidence in general in relation to the existence of the God of Christianity, I believe the evidence in support of His existence far outweighs any supposed evidence in support of His nonexistence. That is why I came to Christianity as my worldview, because I weighed for decades the evidence for both sides (as well as others) and found the evidence for atheism and other worldviews wanting despite my desire many, many times for them not to be.

      I truly appreciate the time you have taken to engage with me in the context of this post on James’/Isaiah 53:5’s blog, Arkenaten. As a final thought, just as a smoker continues smoking in the face of clear evidence that it causes lung cancer because they blind themselves to the evidence, so it is with the atheist. The evidence is there. The truth is never, ever without evidence. The atheist just chooses not to see it. Just because you choose not to see or acknowledge the evidence of God does not mean it does not exist. My hope and prayer is that one day you will open your mind, whether for the first time or once again, to the possibility God does exist. When you are truly open to it, then you will find Him. Then you will see Him. Then you will know Him. God makes us this promise, and, unlike us, God is not capable of lying or breaking His promise.

      God Bless,

      Cindy

      Liked by 1 person

      • If you think I am going to wade trough all this you are sadly mistaken.
        Anyone who requires such a tomb to try to justify such nonsense clearly has serious emotional issues they still need to deal with.
        Original Sin is church doctrine, was not taught or recognised by the character Jesus of Nazareth and was first taught by Augustine.
        Teaching it to children is child abuse
        Period.

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        • Arkenaten,

          After reading some of your blog last night (some of it I actually like) and learning your true thoughts on us Christian di!@heads, this comment doesn’t surprise me much.

          I’ll continue to pray for you and hope you have a happy life but I don’t see much point in discussing matters of faith with you any longer.

          Probably the best thing for us to do is agree to disagree and part ways.

          All the best,

          James

          Like

      • I do wonder – and hope – people of all faiths, including atheism, see the obvious contradiction in and irrationality of Arkenaten saying that theists are not worth the effort and then spending so much time and energy discussing, insulting, and attempting to discredit the things theists believe in on his blog as well as the blogs of many others. Like I just said to Wally, if you believe something to be true, state it, support it if necessary and move on. When you have to keep telling the same people on the same page over and over what you believe is the truth, you’re just admitting to your own lack of conviction that it is the truth and hoping that if you shout loud enough and long enough, others will believe you so that then maybe you can finally believe it yourself. Period. 🙂

        Liked by 2 people

      • I do wonder – and hope – people of all faiths, including atheism, see the obvious contradiction in and irrationality of Arkenaten …. etc.

        I doubt there will be many rumbles in the real world. Sorry and all that. And maybe, just maybe, some of the ‘likers’ will have pause for thought? Many, just like you, are likely ignorant of their own religion, having accepted what was taught for years without ever checking on the veracity. I know you never have! That much is obvious

        With me, it’s a mood thing. Sometimes I’m game, other times the idiocy of fundamentalism exhausts me.
        Besides, you never know, you might learn something. The average atheist knows far more about religion than the average theist, that’s for sure.

        Oh, and atheism isn’t a ‘faith’, by the way.

        🙂

        Liked by 1 person

      • The definition of “faith” – “something that is believed especially with strong conviction.” So you’re saying you don’t believe in your atheism then. I knew you didn’t. Otherwise you wouldn’t be so angry or feel the need to be cruel and demeaning to people with opposing views. Thank you for confirming your lack of belief in atheism publicly to others, perhaps for the very first time. You have finally taken your first step toward the Truth. May God bless you as you take the next and the next…

        Liked by 1 person

  4. James,

    Thanks for this great post. I am trying hard to learn as much about God’s Word as I can, but there never seems to be enough time in the day. Great articles like this really help. I teach Sunday School, and I always try to stress looking at everything we learn in light of the overall story. I think that post is getting printed out and handed out next time. Really, really useful.

    Also, your later explanation of the three differing views of Sin was great too. I hesitate to mention this here as the wolves lurk just around the corner LOL, but that is a difficult subject to comprehend and your breakdown was very useful.

    Thanks for all you are doing here.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks Wally.

      It sometimes doesn’t seem like there is enough time but it really only takes a few minutes a day.

      Keep doing what you’re doing and pray that God continues to gives you the wisdom you need.

      As far as the wolves go, don’t worry about them. Their sole purpose is to frustrate you and make you question your faith, if you let them do either, they win.

      It’s easy to see from the conversations you’ve had here that you are sincere and all they have a disdain for the truth, scriptural misunderstanding, and flawed logic.

      Continue in Him and you will be fine.

      James

      Like

  5. I am also curious to know if he understands the differences betweeen the written an oral Torahs, he seems to be confused.
    Nope, not confused at all.

    Like

  6. By the way, James, your post is truly awe inspiring. I apologize for not saying that right away. Thank you for taking the time to construct such a beautiful summation of the Bible and for reminding us that Jesus is the central figure from beginning to end!!

    Cindy

    Liked by 1 person

  7. @ Cindy
    🙂

    The definition of “faith” – “something that is believed especially with strong conviction.” So you’re saying you don’t believe in your atheism then. I knew you didn’t. Otherwise you wouldn’t be so angry or feel the need to be cruel and demeaning to people with opposing views. Thank you for confirming your lack of belief in atheism publicly to others, perhaps for the very first time. You have finally taken your first step toward the Truth. May God bless you as you take the next and the next…

    Lol….Your sarcasm is precious. You need a bit more practice , but this is a good start.

    I have explained why your silly religion irritates me – not because you believe it ( I could care less) but that you teach it to kids as fact ( truth) and intimidate them through fear of damnation if they do accept this excrement.
    And also such garbage as dinosaurs coexisting with humans, Noah’s Ark, the Garden and Eden and Tales of The Famous Lake Tiberius Pedestrian.

    Ah, I have been ‘rumbled’ by the super-sleuth Crispyian Atheist hunter.
    Yes, obviously you are correct that my ‘faith ‘ in atheism – a complete lack of belief in gods – is all make-believe. I am truly a closet Crispyian but currently natural ”god-hater” who sits at home bemoaning that Yahweh deserted me because my girlfriend ditched me for the college Super Jock and my life is over. These days I just play my Black Sabbath records backwards to hear the message of Satan.

    You nailed it one Cindy, well done!
    Now, do tell, what was the emotional issue that made you give up reality and turn to Yeshua for your salvation?
    Sex,drugs, divorce, bankruptcy,
    Pray … do tell.

    Like

    • Arkenatan,

      First, your assertion that psychological trauma or horrible circumstances are prerequisites to faith in Christ is becoming as tedious as your “pleasent” demeanor.

      While I value free speech and expression of ideas/beliefs, I have only a limited tolerance for rudeness, so you may soon be blocked 🙂

      Now, although it’s common for non-believers such as yourself to say that Christians use fear and intimidation, do they? Is this really how people come to faith? Is scaring, coercing, or forcing people into faith what the Bible teaches?

      While I will admit there are parents (yes, people who call themselves Christians can be horrible parents) who do threaten their children with eternal torture, this is coercion, it is unbiblical, and it is not an effective way to motivate people to either believe or behave in a certain way.

      If God were truly forcing us to worship him, 99-100% of the world’s population would be Christian. Obviously, this is not the case, so perhaps God’s intention is not to force us after all. Many people reject Christianity and even the notion of God, so clearly we have the freedom to believe God and hell don’t exist. If God meant to force everyone to worship him, he would not have allowed people to doubt his existence or coming judgment.

      But suppose that one believes God exists and will throw those who don’t worship him into hell. When the scenario is depicted as a choice between flattering a despot or torture, it seems that one is unethically forced into worship. In reality, the choice is between choosing to do good by loving God and following him, or choosing to reject God and do evil. One is rewarded for doing good and punished for doing evil, but this is not necessarily coercion.

      In society, people are punished with fines or incarceration for doing wrong, yet no one would say that we’re forced to obey the law; in fact, many choose to commit crimes, even when there is a great chance they’ll be caught. In many other situations, people choose to receive immediate gratification despite knowing there will be negative consequences later.

      People get drunk, knowing they’ll have a hangover the next day; students have fun during the weekend instead of doing homework, knowing they’ll get bad grades on Monday; people conscious of their weight indulge in foods that are delicious but also fattening. In each case, there is a clear choice: self-gratification now and unhappiness later, or self-discipline now and reward later.

      Coercion is more than the existence of a negative consequence: it is a threat or an irresistible force that causes a person to do something they would not have done otherwise. If someone becomes a Christian because they come to know Christ and want to follow him, they aren’t being forced into that choice; they may not have even thought about hell. On the other hand, if someone becomes a Christian because they’re afraid of going to hell, their position is similar to that of a child who doesn’t do wrong because he’s afraid of being caught and punished by his parents. Is the child being coerced? Technically, he’s making a choice he wouldn’t otherwise make because of fear. Ideally, he would do the right thing because he wanted to; but if the only way to motivate him to do the right thing is by threatening punishment, better that than his doing the wrong thing. Similarly, worshiping God is the right thing to do, and is in our best interests, and God would rather we come to him out of love instead of fear. If nothing else will get us to do the right thing, fear is a last-resort motivator.

      However, as there are people who freely choose not to worship God, and others who choose to worship out of a genuine desire to do so, it’s clear that God is not forcing us to worship him.

      Bottom line, no one can be forced into faith. Not by parents, not by circumstances, and not by God.

      Like

      • James, would you please consider taking what you just wrote about coercion vs. free will and the choice to follow God and putting it into an independent post on your blog? If you have already and I am just unaware of it, I apologize and would love for you to refer me to it as well. But the truth in your words and the beauty and clarity of the manner in which you spoke them has moved me to tears. You have addressed one of the greatest misunderstandings about Christianity so succinctly but so powerfully and they are words this whole world needs to hear.

        The god Arkenaten believes we as Christians serve is a god not worthy of worship if the only way he could extract obedience and the illusion of love is through force and fear. Just as I choose daily to serve my family not out of fear but out of the love I hold for them, I also make a choice daily, even moment by moment, to serve the God I also love, the God who loved me so much that He gave His Son for me so that I might live and never die. I do not believe in Him or serve Him because of some supposed abusive, indoctrinated fear of eternal damnation if I don’t. Even if there were no hell, I would without question still willingly surrender my life to Him every day out of obedience to Him, born out of the love I have for Him which He has made me capable of both experiencing and expressing because He first loved me.

        Thank you, James, for one of the most beautiful expositions on free will, human responsibility and the goodness of God I have read!

        Like

      • I’m with you, Wally. The posts here by James have been truly inspirational and will undoubtedly help me speak to others about some very difficult issues. I can definitely say the same about posts on your blog as well. And I am humbled beyond words by your comments. Sometimes I just want to avoid discussion altogether because I feel so completely inadequate and I never want to bring shame on our Lord and Savior, but the way you and James have allowed God to speak through you is truly inspiring. It is the strength of conviction and power and wisdom in the words of fellow Christians like you and James that remind me God is, indeed, in control of everything despite this world which testifies to the contrary and that He has already won the battle.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Cindy,

          Again, thanks for the compliments, it’s nice to know readers are blessed and encouraged by what they read here.

          As far as feeling inadequate or that you could possibly bring shame on our Lord and Savior by making a case for faith, don’t ever be.

          Some people will never be moved by anything anyone says and, even God knows, no one has all the answers to all possible questions and/or objections.

          Your words, both here and on your blog, are inspiring, honest, touching, and will move someone in some way.

          God bless,

          James

          Like

      • Thank you so much for the link, James! I will definitely check out your other posts concerning uninspired reasons Christianity is so harmful to humanity as well as the Rational Christianity web site. And thank you equally for your kind words and encouragement. My heart breaks beyond words for all those who refuse to see what is right before their eyes, who turn their back on the greatest gift they will ever be offered, knowing what blessings they would receive if they could just abandon their pride for even the tiniest moment, and I know what fate ultimately awaits them if they choose not to. Yet I know that even though it is God’s will that all be saved, not all will, but since we do not know who will be and who won’t be, we are to reach out in love to all and share with them the Truth, the reason for the hope we have. We are to refrain from passing judgment as to the salvation of others and preach the Gospel to everyone, despairing of no one, because just when a person seems to be the farthest away from God, they truly may be the closest to grabbing a hold of Him. I know that was the case for me, so I cannot give up hope that it may be the case for Arkenaten and all those who have closed their hearts to God. Thank you again for your humble obedience and willingness to serve our Lord and Savior so boldly.

        Cindy

        Liked by 1 person

      • Absolute hogwash! If there was no coercion, no matter how subtle your religion wouldn’t last more than a couple of generations. In some countries, Christianity is already floundering on the rocks faster than Saul of Tarsus and his shipwreck.

        For this reason child indoctrination is crucial to the survival of all religion.

        In more socially advanced countries ( Not the USA) religion is slowly but surely dwindling.
        It will eventually be in its death throes and all you’ll hear are the squeals of whiny Christians claiming ‘persecution’.

        Its days are numbered, and considering how long this tripe has been around what’s a couple of hundred years?
        Zip… enjoy it while it lasts, because your great, great grand kids will likely be free of this rot once and for all and wonder with mild amusement what was wrong with you … just as you might smile and shake your head over those that worshiped Loki or Quetzalcoatl.
        When that inevitable day arrives humanity can begin to truly fulfill its potential without the barriers that crappy religion imposes.

        Like

      • Thank you, James! I look forward to reading your testimony! Love is the way all of us came to Christ, despite claims to the contrary, both God’s love for us as well as the love of others who cared for our eternal salvation. Love can melt even the most frozen heart. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

  8. @ Cindy

    We are to refrain from passing judgment as to the salvation of others and preach the Gospel to everyone, despairing of no one,

    No, please, I beg you. Pass judgement!

    That way we can get into a sensible , grown up adult conversation that is based on scientific evidence and not the mythological rantings of Bronze Age idiocy.

    Let’s talk about Creationists who indoctrinate kids to believe that the Earth was created in 7 days and dinosaurs coexisted with humans.
    Please Cindy, I implore you: Let’s talk.. Surely you are not scared of engaging me?

    Like

    • Not scared at all. What’s there to be scared of? Greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world. I stand on the Truth. There just is no point in attempting to carry on a conversation when it is one sided and when your beliefs about Christianity are so far from reality. You tell us what we believe and then act like we haven’t even spoken when we tell you otherwise.

      I will always be happy to speak with someone with opposing worldviews who honestly wants to converse and have had many wonderful, stimulating conversations doing just that. I did not, however, respond to the “I dare you” threat in middle school so I certainly am not entertaining it here. And I refuse to “talk” any further with someone who engages in the very behavior they so vehemently condemn in others – abuse, coercion and threats. You may believe only abuse inflicted on or directed towards a child is wrong. I, however, believe abuse inflicted on or directed toward anyone is wrong and will not converse with someone whose sole intent in their words is to mete out abuse rather than discuss opposing views.

      Liked by 1 person

      • So , first up, why don’t you write a blog post decrying the heinous practice of Creationists teaching kids that dinosaurs co-existed with humanity?

        I mean, you don’t believe this crap, surely?

        Oh, and what was you reason for conversion, by the way?

        Like

        • Arkenaten,

          This is James *putting on my moderator hat.

          The record of the conversations you have had on this blog show that you are objectively not interested in an honest debate in any regard so there is no point in me allowing you to continue posting comments.

          In the spirit of good will however, I will allow one more before I kindly ask you to take your comments elsewhere.

          Like

          • Well, then, if I am going to be banned, let’s try to end on an honest, scientific note.
            Maybe you could demonstrate some integrity and would like to answer why you do not remonstrate over Creationists indoctrinating children that Dinosaurs coexisted with humans?

            Like

      • Good reply Cindy, I could not have said it better mysef 🙂

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      • Arkenaten, like James stated, I am willing to dialog if the dialog is cordial and goes both ways. And I have no problem with you stating things you think all Christians believe as long as you are open to correction when and where necessary. Likewise, I would hope you would correct me if I have or ever do state something to be a belief that applies to all atheists or non-theists when I am wholly incorrect or incorrect as to your own personal beliefs. While I may not agree with them, I do sincerely respect your beliefs and do not want to misstate them, and I certainly do not want to address beliefs that you do not hold.

        If, for some reason, you would like to ask me additional questions or further discuss topics and ideas brought up on James’ blog in this particular post, if you would, I would ask kindly that you hop over to my blog. James has been more than gracious to allow us our back and forth and has been far more capable than I have of expounding upon the beliefs we hold as Christians, but I believe we have taken up enough space and time on his blog and, at least as far as discussion between you and I are concerned, we should take it over to one of our forums. Of course, James as well as any others who have contributed to this discussion or who have followed it are more than welcome to pick up on my blog as well. I just hate to impose any longer on James’ time and blog space. His kindness has been beyond admirable.

        Liked by 1 person

  9. @James.
    Still waiting for a response, James. Surely you are not simply going to avoid answering?

    Like

    • Arkenaten,

      First, I don’t want to ban you at all but…

      Now to your question, there is a lot going on there.

      1.  On what grounds do you believe I have no integrity?  Is it you who set the standards on this blog?  Is it you who definet the topics and guides the conversations?  If you believe that is how it goes, I would like to ask who died and made you the moderator?

      Also, I just checked WordPress and found the following.

      “James,

      Still waiting for a response, James. Surely you are not going to avoid answering?”

      Do I work for you now?  I didn’t get the memo.

      Anyway, this speaks volumes about your attitude and opinion of us, in your own words “di@!head Christians”, doesn’t it?

      Cindy and I have been more than gracious with you and all we get in return is denial, insults, and assertions that we are psychologically and emotionally challenged.  Why?

      What logical reason do you have that we should continue to entertain you?

      2.  As to your insistence that I must have suffered some psychological trauma or a horrible life situation before coming to faith, why do you insist that is the case? My guess is that you can’t attack the message so you must discredit and demean the messenger.

      You have stated over and over here that I am a liar, I lack integrity, I am a victim of indoctrination, I lack knowledge of science, human behavior, ethics, and the history and tenets of my own faith.

      Why must these things be true?

      Even if I were the dumbest person on the planet, does attacking me do anything to diminish Christianity? Or, does it just make you feel better about yourself? I could make the case that your behavior is like that of a school yard bully, couldn’t I?

      If you were to make us believe that you are trying to woo us to your side, are arrogance and insults good ways to do it?

      3.  Why do you assume that all creationists teach that dinosaurs and humans existed together?  Is this, in fact, what 100 percent of us teach or is this a baseless assertion simply to discredit us as a whole?

      Some time ago GQ Magazine interviewed Senator Marco Rubio and the interviewer asked (quite outside the scope of the interview I might add) if he was a Young Earth Creationist.

      This was not done with the honest intent of getting to the bottom of his beliefs but instead to get him to admit that he believes in something highly evolved science loving secularists roundly regard as absurd so they could discredit all of his beliefs based solely on the “fact” that he is a science hating Christian rube.

      You are doing the same thing by insisting that we talk about dinosaurs here.

      Fact is, evolution (however you define it) crumbles at every level even without the mention of dinosaurs, this is why you insist on dragging the discussion to dinosaurs, isn’t it?

      4.  You assume evolution is a scientific fact when there is a significant amount of evidence that makes the case that it (again however you define it) is implausible at best.

      Even if evolution were true (it isn’t–but just for the sake of argument, let’s assume it is), does that mean there is no God? How do you know God didn’t use it to get us here? (I am not saying that evolution is true or that God used it, just trying to make a point).

      Anyway, if you believe in evolution, does that mean you aren’t a sinner?

      You do know that God won’t accept the excuse that you believed in evolution and not Him, right?

      But, oh wait; this isn’t about facts at all is it?  This is about deluded and indoctrinated Christians lying to their kids and threatening them with eternal damnation, isn’t it?

      5.  You think it’s awful that creationists indoctrinate their kids with something based solely on the fact that you don’t believe it.  Yet you would be completely OK with parents and schools teaching kids that everything that exists randomly came from nothing.

      Seems to me you have a fear that people will believe in creation and Christianity if it is taught, even if it is taught alongside evolution.  Therefore, you want to eliminate it from everywhere but churches and homes.  Am I wrong here?

      Using your vast knowledge of history, do you know who also held similar beliefs about education and religion?

      Keep in mind; I’m only bringing this up because I view you as a militant atheist and someone who is not exactly breaking new ground with your sad and tired view that religion should be extinguished.

      Where have I heard your brand of honest inquiry and free thought before?

      “One fundamental element of that system was its propagation of a doctrine called Marxism-Leninism, and one fundamental element of that doctrine was militant atheism. Until only a little over three years ago, militant atheism was the official religion, one might say, of the Soviet Union and the Communist Party was the established church in what might be called an atheocratic state.”

      Harold Joseph Berman (1993). Faith and Order: The Reconciliation of Law and Religion. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing

      “For seventy years, from the Bolshevik Revolution to the closing years of the Gorbachev regime, militant atheism was the official religion, one might say, of the Soviet Union, and the Communist Party was, in effect, the established church. It was an avowed task of the Soviet state, led by the Communist Party, to root out from the minds and hearts of the Soviet state, all belief systems other than Marxism-Leninism.”

      J. D. Van der Vyver, John Witte (1996). Religious Human Rights in Global Perspective: Legal Perspectives. Martinus Nijhoff Publishers

      “From the Bolshevik Revolution to the closing years of the Gorbachev regime, militant atheism was the official religion, one might say, of the Soviet Union, and the Communist Party was, in effect, the established church.”

      Harold J. Berman (1998). Freedom of Religion in Russia: An Amicus Brief for the Defendant

      “Moreover, [Soviet] schools were not merely to avoid the teaching of religion; they were actively to promote the teaching of atheism.”

      J. D. Van der Vyver, John Witte (1996). Religious Human Rights in Global Perspective: Legal Perspectives. Martinus Nijhoff Publishers

      “Militant atheists also believed that science disproved religion because God remained unseen, his miracles were never subject to empirical verification, and certain religious stories were inconceivable. As such, the Soviet school system consistently promoted “atheistic science” to combat the effects of religion. The curriculum of scientific atheism resembled the curriculum of scientific atheism resembled the curriculum for much of the Soviet educational system, as it was based more on memorization than critical analysis. For homework, schoolchildren were sometimes asked to convert a member of their family to atheism by reciting arguments that were intended to disprove religious beliefs. And schoolchildren often memorized antireligious rhymes, songs, and catechisms. Antireligious ideas infiltrated the most basic in unrelated topics: “Physics, biology, chemistry, astronomy, mathematics, history, geography and literature all serve as jumping-off points to instruct pupils on the evils or falsity of religion.” Although many school subjects appear unrelated to religion, Soviets believed that any intellectual activity was intrinsically opposed to religion.’

      Paul Froese (2008). The Plot to Kill God: findings from the Soviet experiment in Secularization. University of California Press

      Is this your vision of a socially advanced (not American) society?  Asking for a friend.

      Bottom line here, and I say this as someone who has talked with hundreds of people just like you over the years, is this.

      “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

      –          1 Corinthians 1:18

      Unless a person is moved by the Holy Spirit, the message of the cross will be lost on them and foolish to them. Christians expect non-believers such as you to react to the message exactly as you are.

      “Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

      –          Mark 13:13

      If you are not moved by the message you will hate it, you are proof of this.  Ask yourself this.  Do you love and respect Christians as people who simply believe differently than you do or, do you hate us “di@!heads?”

      “If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.”

      –          Matthew 10:14

      The Gospel message, along with evidence that it is reasonable, has been presented to you here and you have rejected it with fervor and conviction, there is no point in a continuing discussion, so shaking off the dust and moving on is, IMHO, the best course of action for me.

      Like

  10. Why must these things be true?

    Because you are fundamentalist christian who believes in Divine Command Theory, the innerancy of the bible ,the doctrine of Hell and teaching it as truth to children.
    Ah …I was wondering when you would bring up communism as it this is the be all and end all of atheism. So churlish, James, really. You honestly think I am some sort of Red under the Bed? How drole.

    The only reason we have ‘militant atheists'( and compared to fundamentalist christians they are paltry in numbers) is because of the lies disseminated by the religious for centuries and as soon as someone begins to ask questions and challenge assertions the religious wet their pants.
    Let’s remember, shall we, that once upon a time the likes of me ( and probably you too) would have simply bee burnt at the stake – after a bit of torture to free your soul, of course)
    And now you are crying wolf when called out?

    I assume nothing. I follow where the evidence leads. I only came to the conclusions regarding the bible after reading it cover to cover (twice) and exhaustive ( on going ) study.

    Evolution is already accepted by all religious people except fundamentalists. If the inventors of your religion, the Catholic Church acknowledge it what is keeping you out in the boon docks?
    If you doubt this , then please produce one peer-reviewed piece of Creationist literature on the subject.
    That you dismiss the issue surrounding the dinosaurs merely highlights how shallow your arguments are – you won’t even broach the subject, which is at the heart of Creationist clap trap and is indisputable proof of child indoctrination.
    You might as well say you are a member of Ken Ham’s Face book page, for goodness’ sake!

    Instead of reeling off endless biblical passages why not engage me as an adult and produce evidence for your claims?

    Simply defend your beliefs with evidence. Fight science with science … if you are able.

    I do not hate anything. I merely despise what the religious do to others because of their erroneous beliefs.

    Like

    • Arkenaten,

      Again, all I see here is rejection, assertions that your beliefs are absolute truth, and insults.

      It is my prayer that your exhaustive and ongoing study eventually leads you to the truth.

      The last thing I have to say to you is this.

      You can accept Him, or reject Him.

      You can trust Him, or doubt Him.

      You can believe His words, or pretend He never spoke the truth in the first place.

      Whatever you do with Jesus won’t change His eternal kingdom.

      It will only determine whether or not you spend eternity with Him enjoying it.

      Will you be there with Him?

      “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
      – John 14:6

      Like

  11. Permission requested to repost some or all of this (verbatim) with link credit. I didn’t see a contact email.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Thanks. Oh, and Jeremiah WAS a bullfrog. =D

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Wow! Talk about a crash course in the Bible, even some of the less well known parts. Great summary of the important Biblical events that as you say, all lead back to Jesus. Thank you for this comprehensive post.

    Like

  14. Reblogged this on The Living Message of Christ and commented:
    Lord, please come soon! Amen!

    Liked by 1 person

  15. I also printed this out and used it for my sermon this morning. It went over really well. People really seemed to enjoy the message and find out some things new about Christ and the Bible that they didn’t know before. Thank you so much for this post.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Reblogged this on Mastersquill's Blog and commented:
    Superb idea and what a way to kick-start an interest in God’s Word.

    Like

  17. Although your article is a few years old, I reblogged it on our sites @ Life After Ministry & Life After Ministries. No matter how ‘old’ it might be,God’s good news is always timeless. Thanks for providing such an awesome blessing!
    Take care, and God bless –
    Michelle Grim
    1 Cor 1:18

    Liked by 1 person

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  1. The Entire Bible In 30 Minutes Or Less. | Tacky Raccoons
  2. Write Out the Gospel – Cultivated
  3. What can you do in 30 minutes? | Life After Ministry
  4. What can you do in 30 minutes? - Life After Ministries

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